Twin Disc:
5061A

http://www.twindisc.com/products_pages/marine/marine.htm

Twin Disc 5061A, As with everything else, read the manual, Twin Disc Part # 101-6313. Now with that said, there is no filter on the gear, but there is a strainer for filtering pieces of the gear and clutch pack as they enter the oil. Oil level must be checked with the gear running according to the manual. That insures that all air is purged and a "true" level is observed. As an alternate, (not to replace what the manual says) you can check levels with the engine off. The most important thing to know about the 40wt oil is it’s level, the Port transmission, "counter rotating", should have a lower level than the Starboard. If you fill the Port transmission up to the top of the fill mark it will overflow via the vent cap in the transmission. Filling it up to the low mark on the dip stick will allow it to operate normally. The oil for the transmission is 40wt, it is different than the oil for the engine, writing with a magic marker on the top shoulder of your spare transmission oil bottles will help you identify the proper oil quickly. Note: Be careful with the top filler plug, it is tapered, wrap Teflon tape around the threads and insert it just snug, over tightening it may cause it to seize in place and it will not come out. Note: The "A" in the model type designates the down angle on the output shaft. Also; You can pull the 5061A transmission on the 330B, 370B & 450C Cummins, by pushing the shaft back on with either the packing gland or dripless shaft seal. You don not need to loosen the stainless collar on the dripless seal. The transmission will clear and come out, on both the engines with packing Glands, and Dripless Couplings in place. It also "just fits" out of the transom door of the 4600 SCB. If you notice a dripping of a heavy dark oil based substance from the rear of your transmission it might just be cosmolene, a preserver. Keep an eye on it, it should go away on its own. BUT, It might also be a leak from the rear seal of the engine, in some cases oil can leak out of the rear engine seal and move across the bottom of the transmission and mislead you. Oil might also be coming from the "vent plug" on the top of the transmission or the drain plug below. Look closely, use a mirror and a strong light to fully inspect where the leak is coming from. If the source of the leak is in question your transmission servicing dealer might want to add a dye to the transmission oil. This will require you running the engine for a few hours so the dyed oil can travel out of the transmission. Sometimes looking with a black light is the most positive answer. 3/00, 4/00 & 5/00

Another 5061A note: If you have to have your 5061A removed for service, replace BOTH the input and output seal at this time. Insist on it. It will prove to be well worth it. The input shaft's seal can be replaced without cracking the case. The output shaft seal requires the transmission case to be split and the seal installed. billegates@aol.com 8/00

Missing 5061A transmission on a 4600 with 450C Cummins Engines.

5061A Installed on a 450C Cummins in a 4600 SCB

ZF / Hurth: ZF bought Hurth Transmission several years' back.
Transmissions:
A = Down-Angle
IV = Integral Vee-drive (flanged on to engine)

HSW 800 IV

Configuration : 12° "V" Drive
Mounting : Direct to Engine.
Bell Housings : SAE 2, SAE 3, SAE 3 CAT
Weight (approx. dry) : 93 kg (205 lbs)
Oil capacity (approx.) : 7.0 litres (7.4 US quarts)
Fluid Grade : ATF, click the link for the list of approved Lubricants:
http://zf-marine.com/ZFR/Transmissions/index.cfm?PID=CF&LubeClass=4D
Standard Input Rotation : Anticlockwise engine rotation when looking at the flywheel end .


Direct Link to the ZF website, for the ZF 80 IV
http://zf-marine.com/ZFR/Transmissions/index.cfm?DS=Description&GN=ZF_80_IV

___________________

HSW 800 A2

Configuration : 8° Down Angle
Mounting : Direct to Engine.
Bell Housings : SAE 2, SAE 3, SAE 3 CAT
Weight (approx. dry) :  64 kg (141 lbs)
Oil capacity (approx.) : 5.5 litres (5.8 US quarts)
Fluid Grade : ATF, click the link for the list of approved Lubricants:
http://zf-marine.com/ZFR/Transmissions/index.cfm?PID=CF&LubeClass=4D
Standard Input Rotation : Anticlockwise engine rotation when looking at the flywheel end .

Ivan Blume's, 4100 SCA transmission

Direct Link to the ZF website, for the ZF 80 A
http://zf-marine.com/ZFR/Transmissions/index.cfm?DS=Description&GN=ZF_80_A

_____________________________

ZF / Hurth , Few more things re my 3700 SCR a few weeks ago, I mentioned an overheating transmission ( 310hp gas with V drive ) when the boat was run at fast cruise ( 3500 and up ) for over 1 hour or so. I took the boat to a Merc dealer here in Miami who had done work for me in the past, he had the transmission checked out by the factory tech. There was a transmission oil pump problem which they were aware of but not to the point of issuing a recall or service bulletin. This is covered under warranty. He also, supposedly, took care of leak I had on the other transmission. We'll see how it goes, I'll keep you posted. I had both problems checked out by the Maxum dealer before, with no luck! At the same time, the Merc shop discovered that the engine mount were loose on the port engine... which was also out of alignment by the way. Apparently for a while, which had been missed by the dealer when they did the 25 and 100 hr service. shame on them.... I usually checked my bilges and engines for obvious problems and I missed that... shame on me too (8/99)

ZF bought Hurth Transmissions several years' back. You can find information on them @ http://ZF-Marine.com/



James: Ref: ZF HSW 800 transmissions
From: Doug & Ann Kendrick, MAXUM 4100 SCR owners.

Ann and I have just returned from a six-week cruise from NC to Merritt Island, FL. Then back to the St., Johns River and as far south as Lake George, and then up the ICW to home. The only sour note was a "blown" transmission in Merritt Island (over $7000 to replace) that held us up for ten days. Have you heard about the ZF HSW 800 transmission being fragile? I have replaced both Port and Starboard transmissions so far in five years and 830 hours running. Each cost about $7000 by the time it was all over including hauling the boat, etc.

The MAXUM 4100 SCR propulsion system uses a "V" drive. This means that the driveshaft passes under the motor and through the transmission to the drive coupling. To remove the transmission one must pull the drive shaft back about 18 inches or so. There isn't room ahead of the transmission to move it forward to clear the shaft. To pull the driveshaft back the propeller must be removed because it would hit the rudder when the shaft slides back.

The propeller (24" x 22") is marginally large to take off underwater and the shaft might leak when pulled back as one must undo the seals to slide the shaft. In addition, the work is easier on dry land, especially moving the 200 pound transmission which is best done with a forklift such as used to launch and retrieve boats. All in all a complicated and expensive job.

Doug Kendrick MAXUM 4100 SCR DKENDRICK@nc.rr.com

The MAXUM 4100 SCR propulsion system uses a "V" drive. This means that the driveshaft passes under the motor and through the transmission to the drive coupling.
To remove the transmission one must pull the drive shaft back about 18 inches or so. There isn't room ahead of the transmission to move it forward to clear the shaft. To pull the driveshaft back the propeller must be removed because it would hit the rudder when the shaft slides back. The propeller (24" x 22") is marginally large to take off underwater and the shaft might leak when pulled back as one must undo the seals to slide the shaft. In addition, the work is easier on dry land, especially moving the 200 pound transmission which is best done with a forklift such as used to launch and retrieve boats. All in all a complicated and expensive job. Have you heard about the ZF HSW 800 transmission being fragile? I have replaced both Port and Starboard transmissions so far in five years and 830 hours running. Each cost about $7000 by the time it was all over including hauling the boat, etc. Doug Kendrick
DKENDRICK@nc.rr.com 4/02


Hurth & ZF Transmissions: Fort Lauderdale, FL, 954-581-4040 http://ZF-Marine.com/

Borg-Warner:
Velvet Drive Transmissions

5000 Series

8 degree down angle allows Horizontal Engine installation
Fully reversing feature allows for Twin Engine installation using Automotive Rotation Engines
Compact design with lightweight aluminum housing
Available in Direct Drive and 5 Reductions

5000V Series

8 degree down angle allows Horizontal Engine installation
Fully reversing feature allows for Twin Engine installation using Automotive Rotation Engines
Compact design with lightweight aluminum housing
Available in Direct Drive and 5 Reductions

Specifications are the same for the 5000, listed above.

Technical Support
Need information about warranties, product features and benefits, and parts availability?

Velvet Drive Transmissions has a worldwide network of marine distributors to handle all of your service needs. Our distributors have been factory trained with up-to-date technical data and information.

Please refer to our distributor link to view your local distributors address, phone and website and e-mail address.

For factory assistance, please e-mail us at: marinesupport@velvetdrive.com

Velvet Drive Transmissions/Marine
Liberty, SC
Phone: 864-843-9234
Fax: 864-843-1276
Email: administration@velvetdrive.com
_______________________________________________

Maxum 1998 Velvet Drive Series 5000
Roger Wothe Environments Inc.

James,
The front seal on the Borg Warner Velvet Drive transmission just blew out on my 1998 4100SCA with 220 hours. Do you know who or where I can contact someone to negotiate covering the cost of repairs considering the low number of hours? The dealer also suggests that I have the forward clutch replaced at the same time because the clutch did slip when I ran two quarts low.

Roger you have a 1998 boat and this is 2002. The warranty is based on time, 24 months for pleasurecraft, not operating hours. I suspect you will have to open your own wallet. Keep me in the loop as to how this works out. James

+ Follow up E-mail:
I wrote earlier of the problems with my Velvet Drive Series 5000 transmission. I have had it repaired for $1,800.00. I had sent a letter to Wayne Eccleston at Velvet Drive before starting the repair, but received no answer in three weeks. I sent him about the same letter only this time FedEx with receipt confirmation. He called the same day that he received the letter. He said that there was nothing that he could do after the fact of the repair, but if I had notified him before the repair was made they could have probably sent me a rebuilt transmission exchange. I did not argue the fact that he was informed before the repair was made. More electrical problems... the port engine battery was not being charged and the battery parallel switch did not help with starting. A technician examined the system and found that the isolator was faulty. When checking the battery parallel system he found that Maxum had only installed the switch in the dash but had not installed any mechanism for paralleling the batteries!!! Just like a number of other things that they forgot to install on my boat. We still like the boat a lot, but I'm getting tired of repairing, replacing and adding things that were supposed to be on the boat. Roger Wothe, Environments Incorporated rwothe@environmentsinc.com


I just got my 3700 SCR back today, Mercruiser sent the shop a new Velvet Drive Transmission for the starboard engine and 2 new (approximately 30% larger) enlarged coolers. After I complained, they did pick this up under warranty, in view of the low hours ( 270 ) and the fact that I had overheating problem on the port one, then under warranty. I'm not sure what was wrong with the transmission, but according to the shop it would have need a complete rebuilt, gear, bearings, etc... The problems started a couple of month ago when the spring in the pressure relief valve snapped destroying the pump. This was repaired but then the transmission would overheat after 10/15 minutes. After using the boat yesterday for a few hours, I felt it was much smoother and realized that the transmission had started going for a while, you know that feeling you have when something isn't right? A slight noise almost imperceptible that mechanics won't hear but that you know is there. For a few months now I thought there was such a noise, and the boat just wasn't as smooth as it originally was. The noise is gone now, it must have been the transmission all along. pascal@pam-trading.com 11/2000

Velvet Drive Transmissions:
I wouldn't have them if my life depended on it. I have Twin Disc M6-5061-A gearboxes and had one of those blow a bull gear on the maiden voyage but they leaped all over that with a new box and both have been great. My buddy has Velvet Drives and there was real legal mess going on between Sea Ray and Velvet Drive as units were delivered with a known problem for which there was a service bulletin. There is a shaft seal that apparently can side alone that shaft and effectively block the gearbox scanvenge port which leads to gearbox overheating. My buddy got two new boxes for free from Sea Ray and they duked it out with Velvet Drive so the boat owner did not have to get caught in the middle. It is amazing to know how different US Marine and Sea Ray are in that regard and they are both owned by Brunswick. 8/2001

I really enjoy the website. It is very helpful. Ed White esjwhite@uswest.net

And now here is the E-mail I received from Boat U.S. "Your name and website was refereed to me by Biff Matthews. He stated that you knew of a few Maxum owners who are having trouble with their Velvet Drive Series 5000 transmissions. I am currently compiling a collection of complaints to bring to Regal-Beloit, the company who bought Velvet Drive from Borg-Warner, in the hopes of guiding them to initiating a recall on the 1998 series 5000 trannies. Any information that you can supply me with would be greatly appreciated. or if you could contact the owners that you know and have them contact me that would also be a big help. I want to get these guys to admit they made a mistake. And then I want them to pay their customers back. Thank you,"

Raymond M. Rose
BoatU.S. Consumer Affairs
880 S Pickett St.
Alexandria, VA 22304
703-461-2856 (ext. 3080)
703-461-4674 (fax)
mailto:rrose@boatus.com

I replied, "Raymond Rose,
You found us on the top of the Ten-Tom Waterway heading back to Florida, were doing the Great Loop, or Great Circle, whichever you prefer. 5000+ miles down, less than a thousand to go. And yes, I run the Maxum Owners Group.

I have no trouble forwarding your request to our owners in our August 2001 E-mail:"


Borg-Warner, transmissions are used on a 4100 SCA, 400 hp, gas, We too had transmission problems (Borg-Warner) with the cooling within two months of delivery. Supposedly a plastic pump that worked only sometimes, the answer came when Mercruiser replaced the whole transmission. Then the starboard one started leaking and they decided to fix this one which was in and out three times before they solved the problem. biff@13-inc.com 9/00 More on Borg-Warner transmissions, If you recall, very early on our port transmission failed and was replaced with a new one. Then, while on a lengthy trip last summer, we lost about all transmission fluid in the port trans. Shumway Marine in Rochester found a loose screw, tightened it and it didn't seem to leak . . . for a while. This spring we tightened every screw and nut on the new port transmission and it still leaked. Talking with Mercruiser's authorized repair facility in Port Clinton, Transmissions Unlimited, I learned that Mercruiser now adds a bead of silicon to both sides of their gaskets because they weren't sealing. I coaxed Mercruiser to paying for that fix. Forget calling the call center. Some girl with a script who knows nothing tried running us around. E-mail me if anyone needs the names and phone numbers of people at Mercruiser who will help. biff@13-inc.com




B-W Velvet Drive 5000 series transmission. I'm not certain where I was in my transmission problems when I last wrote to you. Quick refresher- '98 41SCA, 400 hp 502 cu in, B-W Velvet Drive transmissions. Problem: both transmissions overheating and leaking, port replaced in '98 while starboard was rebuilt, port resealed in '00. Then in '01 I couldn't run more than 2 hours without the port overheating again. The drill was turn off, open engine hatch, let cool, restart, run 2 hours and repeat. But it didn't leak! Then mid-season it began leaking like a sieve when it overheated. I was prepared to contact a lawyer but gave finding a solution one more try. My wife Terre couldn't believe I was this cool about it.

Very long story short as possible - I learned through (intentionally left blank) that in order to get counter rotation in the port transmission B-W added a gear. The additional gear increased heat, plus changed the fluid dynamics with neither being compensated for by a larger heat exchanger or higher capacity pump (the solution). B-W learned about this calling on Transmissions Unlimited and another company in MI to find a solution. Evidently these are the two companies that B-W turns to when it has a problem. Well, they did and B-W tested and approved their solution, taking it to Mercruiser, saying they'd provide the parts if Mercruiser would pay for the installation. Merc's reply, "No way". B-W responded, "Your problem then!"

Just a shot in the dark, I called BOATUS consumer affairs and spoke with Raymond Rose. Good guy. After giving him my boat specs I began explaining the problem when he interrupted to tell me that my port transmission was overheating and leaking. Was he psychic? He explained that BOATUS was receiving complaints about this particular model, 5000 series, and that members weren't receiving any help from Mercruiser. He also said that BOATUS was disappointed in getting members with the problem to respond to published requests. I gave Ray the names of Transmissions Unlimited, Treasure Cove Marina (now Marine Max), who'd done all my work, plus one other person that I knew with the same problem. When I called him back two weeks later he had added 11 names as a result of the three I had given him. He said that BOATUS was preparing a letter to Regal Beloit, the purchaser of B-W's transmission division, on behalf of all the named members regarding the problem, requesting they take responsibility and address the problem. I received my copy of BOATUS's letter but never to this day have I received a response from Regal Beloit. Ray said recently that they never responded to them either.

Then in casual conversation with a fellow yacht club member, he mentioned that (intentionally left blank) the past president of the (intentionally left blank), who is also the president of (intentionally left blank), was at one time high up in the B-W corporation and that (intentionally left blank) might be able to help me.

I e-mailed (intentionally left blank), who responded telling me that he had helped develop the 5000 series transmission. He also explained that Mercruiser made several changes from the original design that caused most of the problems. (Intentionally left blank) confirmed everything that I'd learned from Transmissions Unlimited, adding that the counter rotation also caused the fluid to foam compounding the cooling problem since foamy liquids don't transfer heat well. He further confirmed possible solutions, none of which were inexpensive.

I made one last call to Ray at BOATUS who told me that one member had complained so much to Mercruiser until they gave him a new transmission. What the heck. Now understand, James, that I love my wife and she's a great person. But I lovingly refer to her as "the bitch from hell". She's worse than a pit bull when she gets hold of something like this. I hadn't tuned her loose on Mercruiser . . . . yet.

Anyway, from earlier problems, I had the phone number of Mike Selover (See-lover), supposedly head of Mercruiser warranty service. Mercruiser's phone system is worse than a banks because they don't want to talk to their end user customers. I was prepared when I got Mike's assistant, but didn't show my full hand. I explained my particular problem, the sequence of events then went into problems causes along with the solutions. She played the corporate warranty game not offering much hope until I played one of my aces, telling her that I had my information in writing from several reliable sources, one an unnamed former B-W employee. That got her attention and of course she wanted to know my sources which I refused to divulge. I did excerpt and reword (intentionally left blank) e-mail and sent it to her. She called back the next day and asked what I wanted. I really shocked her when I said I want my boat replaced. I let that soak in for a moment during the dead silence. Then I told her that I knew Mercruiser wanted to keep this low key because it didn't have a recall (yet), so it was taking care of very dissatisfied, vocal customers. I continued, saying that I was prepared to see this thorough until l got satisfaction, meaning I could use my boa without fear of transmission failure which under certain conditions could be deadly.

The end result was a new transmission was installed two weeks before the labor day weekend. We paid for installation, however, I know from the low bill that Mercruiser must have subsidized it. Labor Day weekend we ran over 3 hours each way to Cleveland and back without a problem then a few short trip later. I'm still holding my breath for this season.

James, I'd appreciate your not using the names of these people except Ray Rose at BOATUS but you can have anyone e-mail me or call me and I'll give them everything I have. Also, edit this epistle as needed if you want to use it.

On another note, during the Cedar Point Boat Show last year, my wife Terre and I were on a '00 41 SCA and were, well, disappointed isn't strong enough. In comparison, our 2 year old boat is considerably better all a round than the '00. It looked worse than a Bayliner at its worse. Based on what we saw, we couldn't recommend a new 41 SCA to a friend. Too, we didn't go on any other Maxum during the show either so my comparison is 41 SCA only. There's a '99 37 SCR in our marina and he's very pleased.

Lord, I love the web site, though I haven't visited in several months until recently.

You are to be commended. I can see from your tenaciousness with alternator that you and my wife would be very good friends. Maybe this year I can get in enough runs without any problems to get you some performance specs for our boat and engine.

I'm also glad you and your family had a wonderful and save circle trip. You should share that adventure with Lakeland Boating or Boating. It won't pay for gas but it may make a big dent in that bill. In fact, an angle would be from your wife's perspective; radically different that your and the children's. TMatthews@alink.com Terre Matthews


Name: Ray Charnews
Subject: Transmission Failure
E-mail: charnews@mindspring.com
Maxum Model: 4100 SCA
My Cummins supplied transmission on my 330B engine has been running hotter on the port engine. Hotter meaning too hot to keep your hand on it for any period of time. It turns out that this is a reoccurring problem according the Cummins service man who smoked the transmission on a test run. Cummins is replacing the trans and upgrading the flywheels on both engines as that is supposedly the problem--too light flywheels allowing the engine pulsations to get to the trans. My SCA is a 1999 model. The engines are dated as 1998. I don't know the make of the trans except for a stamped plate indicating HSW 800 A2-2.0. Check it out.

From Jim Clausen, when Cummins up rated the 330B to the 370B they put on a heaver flywheel.

____________________

Jim, I read the website section on transmissions, It stated that you should use a 40# oil, but my transmission book states that a ATF oil should be used . In the article you suggested that you mark the bottles, not needed if you use ATF oil.
Thanks Ron. Cem1inc@aol.com

P.S I am one of those Late senders for membership. Its in the mail!!!!!!

Ron was right, I was talking about the Twin Disk 5061A which uses 30 wt oil, the HSW 800 which Ron has uses the ATF fluid. The website now reflects this. JC


Need a BORG-WARNER Velvet Drive, try Maryland Marine Distributors, Web Site: www.marysvillemarine.com E-mail to: marketing@marysvillemarine.com or call 800-367-0987.
Velvet Drive Transmissions: 954-467-1540, 800-462-8848 http://www.marinegears.com/catalog/cat-idx-bw.html

Common Information:
Throttles, Transmission Seals, Motor Mounts, Etc:

Transmission seals, short shelf life, (3 years)

Yes, this is what was related to one of our owners. Here's what happens. The Transmission manufacturer, due to the long lead time on manufacture makes their transmissions and stocks them. By the time the boat manufacturer specifies the transmission and they are installed and sold in the boat, you the transmissions seals many be well over 3 years old. You may have seen the packing grease around the seals being thrown out when the boat was new, this is an attempt to extend the life of the seals by keeping it wet with a moist grease. We are unfortunate experts on this having both of our transmissions out twice and our seals replaced. Here's the good news, If your transmissions were fresh and if you use the boat you will, baring unforeseen problems, get many years out of your seals just by using them. James.

This might be a good time to go below and check your engine motor mounts, put your back into the wrench these are big nuts and they need to be TIGHT, you should do this every 100 hours or yearly, and while there do a general look see and tug check. If your engine mount bolts are loose, your engine may be out of alignment. This will cause excessive vibration and will insure a major repair bill in your future if not taken care of promptly and correctly. While there check you shaft coupling bolts and your shaft too, 8/99 & 4/00 & 3/01


Throttles: Throttle information can be found at the end of the engine section, click here to go there.